Many of you have written to us wanting news of where we’re heading now that GoLive is no more. As some of you may have noticed, I’ve posted a small amount of information about our future plans already but I wanted to let all our customers know a bit more about the general direction in which we’re headed, as well as some rationale behind the decisions that we’ve made. For that reason, I’ve started this blog which I hope to use as a way to keep up a dialog with you, our loyal users.
Very shortly after we released MenuMachine 2 in 2005, Adobe dropped the bombshell that they were purchasing Macromedia, which of course included GoLive’s direct competitor, Dreamweaver. While we initially didn’t know how this would affect GoLive, we certainly suspected that it might throw a spanner in the works.
Despite my best efforts to try and obtain some sort of information from Adobe about their future plans for GoLive, I drew a blank, even after earnestly pleading to various contacts in the know. Some of you undoubtedly think that we must have been given advance warning that GoLive was being shut down, but unfortunately all we got from Adobe was stony silence. We found out about the discontinuation of GoLive the same way you did. I must admit to being pretty annoyed about this, given the level of support and that I have given Adobe and GoLive over the years, as well as the huge number of bug reports and feedback I gave them about GoLive and the GoLive SDK. Nevertheless, that’s how it went down and we have to live with it.
Anyway, after the initial flurry of support requests and bug fixes following MenuMachine 2’s release, we started investigating what we should do in order to avoid getting caught out if GoLive went the way of the Dodo.
We basically concluded that we had four options:
- do nothing, keep the status quo and just continue development of MenuMachine for GoLive
- continue development of MenuMachine for GoLive and also create a version of MenuMachine as a plugin for Dreamweaver
- drop MenuMachine for GoLive and build a MenuMachine plugin for Dreamweaver
- build MenuMachine as a stand-alone application, with plugin support for Dreamweaver and possibly other HTML tools
We determined that option 1 was not feasible, as the likelihood that Dreamweaver would supplant GoLive was not insignificant. To investigate options 2 and 3, I had already done some preliminary prototype work with Dreamweaver and basically determined that there was no way to build a version of MenuMachine for Dreamweaver that would work anywhere near as well as the GoLive version, due to several major deficiencies in the Dreamweaver extensibility APIs. While I could have probably built something that worked, it would not have been something I was proud of and you, our customers, would likely have been disappointed.
So, I can announce today that we decided on option 4. The next version of MenuMachine will be a totally standalone application, with plugin support for Dreamweaver at launch and other HTML editors to follow. The next version of MenuMachine will also be built for and will only run on Mac OS X.
I am very sorry to say to our Windows-using customers that unfortunately this is the end of the line, we will no longer be developing a Windows-compatible version of MenuMachine. We simply do not have the resources to develop both Mac and Windows versions simultaneously. This was a very hard decision and not one we took lightly.
To help make this decision, we had a good look at our user base. As part of our sales process, we record the platform that each customer is using and this information is also recorded when MenuMachine is downloaded. We were thus able to determine that close to 70% of our users are using Macs and we therefore hope that we’re making the best decision for the majority of our users. We are very passionate about the Mac and will be delivering a first-class Mac OS X user experience.
There are many, many advantages to MenuMachine running as a standalone application, for example:
- The user interface can now be totally integrated with the OS, with support for keyboard shortcuts, copy and paste, drag and drop and so on.
- We can access the full power of the Mac OS X APIs which allows us to do many things that would be difficult or impossible when running as a plugin in either GoLive or Dreamweaver.
- We get massive performance improvements due to the fact that the code is compiled as a native binary rather than interpreted JavaScript.
- We can support multiple HTML editors, including text editors which will allow hand-coders to use MenuMachine to rapidly develop sophisticated navigation UIs for their sites.
- You as the user are not locked to using one HTML tool if you want to use MenuMachine, you are free to change HTML editors as your needs evolve.
We do not want the WYSIWYG editor user experience to suffer from the fact that the MenuMachine editor is now standalone. We are incorporating first-class support for Dreamweaver with a set of extensions that will allow menus to be inserted into pages and previewed just like MenuMachine 2 for GoLive. You will still be able to drag menus to position them and also easily and automatically update the links in your pages when a menu is updated. We have spent a lot of time ensuring that the Dreamweaver support is top-notch. We will also be making available a free Dreamweaver extension that allows Dreamweaver users running Windows or users without a copy of MenuMachine to preview the menus in their Dreamweaver layouts.
We intend to provide support for other Mac HTML editors in future. The new version of MenuMachine is very extensible and uses a plugin architecture that allows us to easily add support for other editors.
Rewriting MenuMachine as a standalone application from scratch has been a major effort for us and while it’s not ready to go just yet, we are working very hard to deliver it as soon as we possibly can. I am very excited about the new version and I’m certain you’ll be pleased with the finished product. I will be posting more details about what we are planning for the new version soon.
August 7th, 2008 at 11:12 pm
While I understand your reviewing your user base to determine the Mac vs. PC ratio, I must say I am disappointed that you will not be developing for PC. If I am not mistaken, GL started primarily as a Mac product. If that is true, then it would be logical that there would likely be more Mac users than PC users. However, I wonder if the realm of prospective customers for your new product is consistent with that.
~Nick
August 8th, 2008 at 9:37 am
@Nick Spence:
Hi Nick, we hope to pick up a lot of new customers who have never been able to use MenuMachine before due to its inherent GoLive exclusivity. Over the years we’ve had many, many requests to make MenuMachine compatible with other editors (especially Dreamweaver) and going standalone was really the only way to do this.
As I said in the article, I am really sorry that we are letting down our Windows users. It’s not what I wanted to do but we only have a limited amount of resources. Even getting the Mac version written from the ground up has been a difficult road and a cross-platform version was just not feasible.
August 8th, 2008 at 9:48 am
Hi Rob, thanks for the update … all good news - for some - but, I have to concur with Nick.
I can understand your decision to drop development and support for PCs users based on BigBang’s current Mac/GoLive customer base, but I would have thought there would be a larger number of website developers using PCs/HTML editors just based on the numbers of PCs vs Macs in the world-wide marketplace? (I don’t have any facts to backup my own theory, unfortunately!). Surely there is a bigger world-wide market there for you to tap into rather than just the Mac market?
- Brendan
August 8th, 2008 at 10:13 am
Wonderful news, and I think your plan of action is smart, although I’m sure PC users will be smarting. I’m mortified by Adobe’s treatment of you, but not surprised given their abuse of loyal users over the past few years. Learning Dreamweaver after Golive was an ordeal, to say the least. Looking forward to seeing the new MenuMachine, and let me know if you need any beta testers!
August 8th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Well I can’t tell you how disappointing it is that your leaving us windows user out in the cold. I’ve been looking into upgrading to Dreamweaver and one of my biggest concerns are making nice menus. I’ve been researching the products for making menus and none seem to be as easy as menu machine.
I feel like the double axe just hit. GoLive and then no windows menu machine!
August 8th, 2008 at 11:45 am
Excelent notice!!! and I will waiting more notices about the new MenuMachine.
Do you need betatesters?
August 8th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
Sorry to hear about the Windows exclusion, but as a Mac user that is great consolation after being knifed in the back by Adobe. And being pushed to work with Dreamweaver. Dreamweaver is so Windows oriented it is like working on a PC already. I’m glad that you chose to stay with the Mac.
I’m looking forward to creating some new menus with MenuMachine in Dreamweaver or other HTML editor of choice.
August 8th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
Great news and thank you for the info! I’m also here for betatests if you like, just send me an eMail.
Kind regards
René
August 9th, 2008 at 12:47 am
Rob
Great news, great post and a great product. Now stop blogging and get back to work. Thanks for keeping your user base updated.
August 9th, 2008 at 10:44 am
I’ll be calling for beta testers on this blog when the time comes, which is not quite yet.
August 9th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Hi Rob, thanks for all you’ve done so far. I am not budging from Golive CS2 even if I have to eventually keep an old Mac around to run it - as long as I can still replace my Menumachine if my stuff gets hit by lightning, I’m happy.
August 10th, 2008 at 2:49 am
So sorry to hear that the next version will be Mac only. I’ve always thought of the Mac for publishing and art and the PC for web and video. I know that 98% of the people who visit to my website are using PCs.
The fine line between the Mac and PC is dimming rapidly, or so my Mac friends tell me and bemoan constantly, and the fact that my work Mac now runs Fusion is further evidence.
Like some others, I’ll continue to use GLCS, (I do have GLCS2 but haven’t used it much) and Menumachine 2 because it’s made my web design life so easy.
Even so, thank you for a great product.
August 11th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Great to hear that you guys don’t leave together with GoLive. (sorry for PC though)
It’s going to be a change to use Dreamweaver, but this application also has some good things.
Love to beta test for you people.
Is there a way to sign up?
Cheers
August 12th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
I’ve been using Menu Machine since it first came out. It’s an excellent companion to GL. I too am disappointed in Adobe’s latest decision to axe GL and their treatment of you. I have Dreamweaver CS3, but I just can’t bring myself to use it. It seems a little clumsy compared to GL. The interface is too crowded.
Will the next version of MM produce accessible code? i.e. CSS styled unordered lists? With no Javascript?
Mac user, GL CS2
Thanks
~ Ron
August 12th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Great choice Rob. A stand alone product will release you from Adobe’s sometimes failing path. Most creative agencies & individuals I work with are Mac based and sometimes even have it as a requirement. To the PC users… they can round out their hardware with a Mac just as my office houses a PC to meet my client’s needs. Or just get a Mac and thats boots both ways.
August 12th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
@Ron Harris:
I’ll be posting in more detail about what we’re doing technically with the new version at a later date, but in a nutshell you will definitely be able to create list-based menus that will gracefully degrade and still be functional if JavaScript is disabled.
August 12th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
Hi There. I have been reluctantly using Dreamweaver for the past few weeks and it is only because I have to. I’m a big fan of Menumachine. The only criticism that I have would be that the menus are not friendly to google as it does not bother to read javascript. Will the new version work with CSS or will it be friendly (somehow) with google??
August 13th, 2008 at 2:02 am
I’m primarily a mac golive user, though I use both platforms when my job requires it. I’ve been using menumachine almost since its inception on both platforms. I am in the process of making the migration to Dreamweaver (kicking and screaming, of course).
I’ve been looking at different menu based plug-ins for dreamweaver. Not happy with any of them. Will be glad to use menumachine again.
This is the way things are now. We’ve got to take it and move on. Thanks for continuing to write great software.
August 13th, 2008 at 5:45 am
Glad we finally have some information about what is happening. We’ve used menumachine for a while now, and we’ve been very happy with it.
As a PC user, I guess I’m being abandoned by big bang like (as a GoLive user) we were all abandoned by Adobe. It’s a shame you couldn’t use RealBasic or something cross-platform for your stand-alone development.
We have started developing in Dreamweaver, and I guess we’ll move on from menumachine (as painful as that will be) as well.
Good luck with the next product. You do build nice software!
August 14th, 2008 at 11:36 am
*Ouch*…Mac only. I can only concur with others who are feeling abandoned. I’ve been waiting patiently(and loyally) for the new version of MenuMachine but I never expected it would be limited to Mac users.
I suppose I’ll be spending some time researching for the something else that works with PC. That makes me sad.
I am sorry for how badly Adobe has treated you. It’s hard to find companies with integrity anymore.
Good luck with the new incarnation of MenuMachine and I know it will be a rousing success for you!
August 14th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Had to make the transition from GoLive to Dreamweaver8 and bemoan the fact that most of the available menu plugins are for PC and not Mac. Can hardly wait to purchase MenuMachine for Dreamweaver/Mac. It is such a versatile and natty little tool. At present I run my web sites in parallel with both applications so as to keep using MenuMachine, but it is a pain. I will put off buying anything else on offer out there. It will be worth the wait. Sooner the better. Thanks for hanging in there. Pity Adobe hasn’t thought to buy you out for a tidy sum and integrated MM it into CS3 or 4 or 5. By the way, for those having trouble adjusting to the Dreamweaver world, hang in there. It gets easier and for me, much more stable.
August 17th, 2008 at 3:57 am
“Pity Adobe hasn’t thought to buy you out for a tidy sum and integrated MM it into CS3 or 4 or 5. ”
Noooooo! that’s what happened to an immensely useful for Indesign, Quark bought it so later version of ID cannot include it.
I’d rather see Menumachine redeveloped as a standalone, definitely not tied in to something I may not want!
August 17th, 2008 at 6:46 am
As a longtime user of GL and MM, I am very happy to hear that we’ll at least continue to have one of these great products left to use. GL was elegant in it’s use and MM made it just that much more so. I have had to use Dreamweaver now that GL is gone but I hate it. Really, I just don’t see how it is better than GL, which is why, I assume, Adobe went with it over GL. If anyone wants to clue me in about how it makes my job easier than GL, please do. But in the meantime, I’ll take this information from Rob and look forward to the new MM. Thanks, Rob and all. You’ve been, over the years, very helpful and supportive. Best of luck with the new venture.
August 19th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
I’m soooo happy you’re going to DW capable. I just bought a new Mac Pro TODAY - not thinking the GL was discontinued. I had to get away from my PC - too many gliches, and headaches. As soon as I found out about GL I came right here to see if you were on it, and I’m so glad you are - the only reason I don’t use DW now is the terrible menu controls. I’m a pure WYSIWYG & print designer, with vitually no web design experience outside of GL & using MM. Let me know if you need Beta helpers!
August 22nd, 2008 at 2:03 pm
Hi Rob:
I understand your plight. I transitioned to DW8 as soon Adobe started bundling it with Golive. The writing was already on the wall. Although some people will transition kicking and screaming, they will eventually realize the advantages of DW and Adobe’s rational. There are many options for menu creation for DW (not the least AJAX already accompanying DW CS3, Project 7, WebAssist, …). Wishing BigBang Extensions well, I would bet that relying solely on Mac OS will turn out to be a mistake in the long run. You should not dismiss this prediction: your current situation is at least in part the result of your personal preferences and wishful thinking rather than recognizing unpleasant yet inevitable events. There are still more PC users out there and Apple’s reputation as far as appreciation of customer loyalty is concerned is worse than Adobe’s. There are also other web-related tasks and opportunities than building menus that would benefit from your experience and creativity. All the best to you and BigBang Software.
September 7th, 2008 at 6:59 am
While I would prefer a version that worked on both Mac and Windows, only because I’m force to use windoze at work, I’m glad there will be a version for Dreamweaver.. Having been forced into using Dreamweaver, I’ve tried several competing menu extensions and they all blow… Menu Machine is awesome..
Any idea (approximately) how long we need to suffer *sniff* before it’s released? Heck, I’ll use a beta..
September 13th, 2008 at 4:26 am
I agree with the post above that the transition from GoLive to Dreamweaver is horrendous. I think I could have spent my time better learning Mandarin. Spry menus are definitely not intuitive.
I just recently bought a Mac so your decision to abandon Windoz does not affect me. For others, investing $1,200 for a mac shouldn’t be that much of a hardship if you are serious about web designing, and besides, it is a better machine. For those of you who are heavily invested in other Adobe products, I think that they offer a platform exchange. Also check Amazon for software. I got AI for about the same price as Adobe’s exchange program and I didn’t have to jump through all of their hoops. Also, when I registered AI I was offered a 10% discount on any Classroom in a Book as a “reward.” Even so it was about double the price than as listed on Amazon. So I guess we all need to look out for #2 because Adobe is doing a great job of looking out for #1.
And not to create more pressure on you-
The $64,000 question is WHEN?
October 10th, 2008 at 6:14 am
Any headway on this project?
October 17th, 2008 at 9:09 am
…
Pain in the toosh -… but I can wait ’till end of 1st qtr.
Thanks Rob for the 10-08 update.
Ron
October 30th, 2008 at 4:39 am
dear rob and janet,
such good news! i have been avoiding the transition from GL to DW hoping for this. now that i know there is hope, i will start trying to get into DW again.
thank you for a great product and all your support day and night when i have been seriously stumped.
good luck and PLEASE keep doing what you do!
sincerely,
pat
October 30th, 2008 at 8:34 am
I just read the news that MenuMachine 3 will be Mac ONLY. And to say the least I’m more than a little disappointed. I know there is no way to change your mind but I think you were a little short sighted with your choice. Yes, maybe you’ve sold 70% of MenuMachine to Mac users. But what you should be considering is more than that. What percentage of menus out there on the web were created with MM for Windows compared to Mac? Maybe, just maybe the Windows people are using your product more than Mac users in sheer volume. Also, with MM moving to Dreamweaver did you consider how many Dreamweaver users are PC based?? Are you content with only selling to your current customers? That’s short sighted businesswise. You state that you don’t have the resources to develop for both platforms, understandable I guess. But with some better marketing you’d probably bring in more profits from the PC side since there are so many more of us! IF you sold to 1% of the Dreamweaver/GoLive users on the PC side it would be much more than if you sold to 30% or more on the Mac side. I think you should reconsider or at the very least come out with a PC version in a year or so…but saying that this is “the end of the line” for Windows users?? That’s business suicide.
November 8th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Great to hear this software will go on as stand alone on mac.
Sorry for the windows users, but, when you google menu makers you will notice ALL dhtml menu makers (some real great ones) run on the windows platform and none on the OS X platform.
You were the only one.
Most graphic designers (the printing business) use macs. Only the hard core webdesigners/scripters use PC’s.
I personally changed from PS to MAC because my interests shifted from 100% webdesign to all over Graphic Design.
So I think your MAC choice is a right one. Very likely it will make your software the only DHTML menu maker available for the MAC operating system. There is (as far as I know)nothing else.
November 24th, 2008 at 8:40 am
Being involved in web design for the past 8 years and a GL user for the main part of that I’m thrilled that you’re still developing MM and I totally understand your justification for going Mac only. The people who are disappointed need to realise that not everyone has a million dollar R&R budget and sacrifices need to be made. I think you’ve made the right choice Rob and I’m speaking from experience.
What people don’t seem to understand is that once you have a fully working version for Mac released and working well it will then free you up to reassess if developing a PC version is financially viable. I have a sneaking suspicion that you’ll do even better than you’re projecting and that a PC version will one day be a reality.
On the other hand, they could all migrate to the superior platform lol